Episode 05: Set Boundaries, Find Peace Pt. 1 by Nedra Glover Tawwab

In this episode, I discuss my anticipation for a trip to Philadelphia that I planned, and my affection for the autumn season. I focus the episode on the topic of setting boundaries, inspired by Nedra Glover Tawwab's book "Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself." I share my personal growth in learning to communicate my needs and the significance of establishing clear boundaries for healthier relationships. I reflect on past challenges, the importance of self-worth, and encourages listeners to engage in open dialogue and self-reclamation.

TRANSCRIPT

Amaka (00:00:14) - Hello, everybody. Welcome back. Welcome back to the Biblio Therapy for Black Women podcast. I'm your host Amaka, as I'm recording right now. I'm at my desk. It's about 730 in the morning. The skies are clear. Not one cloud. And, I'm fortunate enough to live in. Are like a taller building to where I get a pretty good view. So, you know, it's always nice to wake up and kind of sit at the desk and just kind of get lost in the view I have here. So I'm enjoying that right now as I'm recording, and in a few hours I will be hopping on a train to Philadelphia for the weekend. I haven't been to Philly in a while and I had a plan last year, March 2020. I think it was spring break from my program, and my partner and I wanted to go to Philly because it's one of my favorite places. And, you know, we just wanted to go there and hang out. but it kind of goes without saying we had to cancel, and I still haven't been back since, so, Philly's beautiful in the fall time, and, I've been having the itch to go there for a while.

Amaka (00:01:47) - So a couple weeks ago or so, I was just like, you know what? I'm going to book a train ticket. and I'm going to book some accommodations, and I'm going to just go for the weekend and have a good time. So I'm going to be running to catch my train in a couple of hours. But I wanted to record this episode beforehand. I hope everyone's week has been good. It's a Friday when I'm recording, so whenever you listen, I hope however many days that have passed have been pretty good. This week for me was a calmer one in terms of. Having a little bit more time for myself and thinking about my plans for the rest of the year, and kind of making a game plan. You know, I'm looking forward to the season. Fall is my favorite season. I love that the weather gets a little cooler. I love fall fashion. I love the changing colors of the leaves. I love the seasonal food. I just love everything follows a vibe. so I'm excited for what's to come and I'm excited for the holidays to.

Amaka (00:03:14) - So yeah, that's kind of where I'm at right now. And in terms of what I'm reading, as you can see from the title, I'm reading Set Boundaries, Find Peace A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself by a Network Lover to what? I follow her on Instagram. That's where I was first introduced to her, as many people were, I'm sure I saw that she was releasing this book, and I feel like many people, they think many people think they have healthy boundaries until they realize they don't have healthy boundaries. and I think I'm one of them. I think I'm the type of person who had to grow into it. I definitely did not really. I wasn't really aware of boundaries growing up, and I wasn't really aware that I could have boundaries. I think that's part of just my upbringing and my, my, my, my place in terms of siblings, because I'm the first and, you know, first of four and kind of having all the responsibility and being the third parent, you know, and just having everything that you need to take care of, kind of don't always feel like you can be selfish with your time.

Amaka (00:04:38) - Focus on yourself. So I feel like I wasn't really too aware of boundaries as I got older until I got older, and. Moved out on my own and had my own apartment and started learning who I was. You know what works for me? What doesn't? So I have not finished this book. I've read a couple chapters, a few chapters, and I was like, oh wow, I already have enough for a whole episode. Just to give you an idea of how dense this book is in terms of good information that is helpful to navigate this whole arena or space when it comes to boundaries, because. We don't really think of them tangibly sometimes, but they're important to have. And I feel like sometimes we're not really we don't really think of them because we don't really grow up with them. You know, we take we take example from those who are raising us and we see what they do and we kind of use that as a reference point. But I think this book is timely and I think it's necessary.

Amaka (00:06:16) - regardless of how old you are, you know, I know it's probably geared more towards people my age and maybe a little younger, but, I think the sooner you're able to grasp the concept of setting healthy boundaries and being able to be consistent with them, be vocal about them. Be explicit about them. Learn what works for you. The better off we all are. So I'm going to. Tackled this book in a series of episodes. This being the first. I'm not quite sure how many episodes I'm thinking three, but not I'm not absolutely certain. So this is part one of the series on the book Set Boundaries Find Peace by Nedra Glover Torp. So as I was reading what I've read so far, I was thinking about myself. I was thinking about my relationships with boundaries or the lack thereof as I was, you know, as as I've been growing up and getting older, maturing, living on my own, being by myself, getting to know who I am, what works for me, what doesn't.

Amaka (00:07:36) - And. I'm thinking back to habits that I had or behaviors that I exhibited that are clearly a no no. I know that now, and the book makes it a point to mention, you know, behaviors like kind of having invisible boundaries or having boundaries in your mind, drawing the line in the sand in your mind. But the person who the imaginary boundary is directed to has no idea what's going on. They violate that boundary that you have in your mind. They don't respect it, and then you get mad at them. and then you might start being passive aggressive. You might start avoiding, you might start implementing the silent treatment. All the things that I used to do to a degree that I don't do anymore, at least I hope I don't do that anymore. I feel like I, I'm pretty self-aware and. I've worked really hard over the past five or more years to not be that person anymore and really just come person to person and, you know, have a conversation. And, you know, try to be respectful to that person while also respecting myself and getting to the bottom of whatever, you know, conflict we have.

Amaka (00:09:19) - So. I do remember kind of having invisible boundaries. Not not voicing them, not being able to voice them because I struggled growing up with. Voicing my opinions. Voicing my thoughts. and I also had trouble with also believing that what I had to say was important, and believing that what I had to say mattered. That's a lesson that I. This started learning in my 20s when I had my first job in Delaware. I was doing well in my job as my first quote unquote big girl job and. I remember having kind of like a come to Jesus moment with my mentor. She asked me to come into her office and to have a seat, and we had like this whole, heart to heart about how I would never really speak up in meetings. And I told her how, like, at that point I was 21, 22. And I'm in meetings with people who are twice my age. I was always the youngest in the meeting. and. I told her how, like, I didn't really think there's anything I could contribute.

Amaka (00:10:48) - Because everyone in this room, everyone in these rooms have, you know, dozens of years of experience to me and must know what they're talking about. I'm, I'm literally, less than a year out of college. I don't really know what experience you can I can draw from. And she told me something. That, you know, has stayed with me. And I think that was one of the really core moments for myself and really stepping out of my shell and becoming less timid. I began to I began to really work through that. She told me that, you know. Yes. I'm young. Yes. I don't have as many years of experience. but I'm new to this field. I'm younger. I have fresher eyes. A lot of professionals who have been in this field that I was working in at that time. You know, have been here for a long time. It's possible that they don't really see things and may miss things that prevents our work from getting better. So. All in all, she was saying, you're new, you're fresh, you have a different perspective.

Amaka (00:12:15) - You know, be confident in that perspective. And. Trust that what you have to say matters. Because if a thought comes to your mind, you know, we picked you for this fellowship for a reason. If a thought comes to your mind that you feel strongly enough to where it should be said, but you want to push it down, say it. Say it. At the very least, it won't take away from the conversation. It might be more of a neutral statement, or it might be something that contributes to the general discourse. But but don't, don't shove it down. So I will never forget that conversation. I'm not even sure if I, like, started crying, but yeah, I have never forgotten it. So I kind of just give that little example because of not really having confidence in my voice and what I had to say growing up. And that translates to not being able to be vocal about any boundaries. You know, I don't even really know if I had boundaries, you know, in my teenage years or even when I was even younger than that.

Amaka (00:13:37) - I'm pretty sure that I maybe felt that I couldn't have them. That's probably. I'm pretty. I'm pretty confident that that was maybe my thought process. You know, your child, you know your parents love you. but you are there to do a job. You have a job. Especially me, because I'm the oldest of four. And whatever we need you to do, you'll need to do. And you need to be a stellar student. And you need to take care of your siblings, or you need to take care of the house, and you're responsible for everything when we are not here. So, I kind of felt that I just had to abide by that. And I didn't really feel like, although I started to get a little bit bolder in my teenage years, I do remember that. But up until that point, I don't think that was really about healthy boundary setting. I think that was more about me trying to push back. but up until that point, I kind of just abided by the instructions that I was given.

Amaka (00:14:42) - So an unfortunate adverse effect of that was not being able to know what boundaries were. No, that I could set them for myself and know that I could enforce them for myself, because that's not a thing. You're a kid, you're a teenager. You're not supposed to have boundaries. You know, we do what you do, what we tell you to do. So really, first of all, realizing that I'm worthy enough that I am, worth having, like, worth setting boundaries for my safety, for my self care, for for just who I am was something I had to kind of grow into. And I think that came with being on my own, moving into my own apartment, kind of going through that process from my early 20s. And doing things for myself. You know, I feel like part of the issue with not feeling like I could set boundaries was because I was dependent on the people in my life growing up. My parents, obviously, you know, they're my parents and you're dependent their for on them, for everything.

Amaka (00:16:04) - They're your lifeline. And because of that, you sometimes feel like you can't really tell them that you like, you don't like this thing that they're doing or this is wrong because. You feel like something that you need from them, something a part of your lifeline might be threatened. whether that's true or not. But sometimes you might. You feel that way. And that was true for me. At times I felt that way. I didn't feel like that was part of also to not really feeling like I could voice my opinion. But once I got out from under that. And was in my own space that I was, you know, paying for. I was supporting myself. You know, I was I wasn't depending on anybody for anything. I was getting myself to work by myself. Granted, I was taking the bus, but I was still doing everything on my own. you know, I. Was supporting myself 100%. I saved up for my first car. I bought it by myself, like so many, I think crucial milestones for growing into yourself and learning who you are in your 20s happened for me to where my confidence started to build.

Amaka (00:17:37) - You know, I was I had that really important conversation with my mentor at that time that gave me more insight into who I was and what I needed to change. And I think little by little, bit by bit, I was becoming. More confident in myself. And I think that with that. You know, I was starting to. Said. Boundaries for myself. You know, certain, I would say very important boundaries. They they hadn't been solidified. You know, it took some time before. I was able to really stand in them, but I think because of what I was able to do for myself, I started to. Realize that. I can. Stand up for myself. Pretty much. That was my first lesson, I think, in the whole realm of boundaries and just being able to stand up for myself, and if somebody did something to me that I did not really like, I wouldn't be scared. Whether it was to me or just something in general that maybe I feel like warranted a differing opinion.

Amaka (00:19:02) - And I had it, you know, I would be less afraid to speak it out. But yeah, I still had a lot to learn. I still have a lot to learn. I don't know everything about boundary setting, but I could definitely say that I know more now, and I. I function better now when it comes to that. And when you're learning things and you're new at it, and you haven't really controlled the emotional aspect, you make mistakes. So when I talk about having those imaginary boundaries, you know, I kind of went to feeling like I couldn't have any boundaries or didn't really know what boundaries were growing up to the point where, like, maybe I was starting to form boundaries for myself and there were certain things were maybe I would speak it out. but then there were certain things where I wasn't confident at that point to really speak it out. Boundaries that. Also depending on who the person was or things like that. I wasn't really confident yet in saying what I had to say, because I was still battling and working to break down the mindset that I had grown up with.

Amaka (00:20:21) - You know, so I'm sure that I had invisible boundaries and, you know, mental boundaries that I was like, okay, they they need to abide by this. Meanwhile, I had never voiced it out. And then when those boundaries were violated, I would attempt to show that I was upset, but not say that I'm upset or not say that, something was done that I did not like or that hurt my feelings. And then I would wait for them to say something wrong. And if that never happened, I would get even more mad because I'd be like, well, they can't see the change in my temperament and how I'm behaving towards them, so they must not even really care. Type thing. You just kind of go down a rabbit hole and it's not good. And you know, the whole time you're the one that is, you're the one that's suffering. It's not the person. Oftentimes, the person that committed the offence has no idea. They might know, but a very many times they don't know.

Amaka (00:21:38) - They're going about their business. They're living their very happy life. You're they're suffering because they did this thing to you and you are mad about it. You haven't voiced it out. And you keep hoping that they see how you've changed in terms of your behavior towards them. You're they don't. You get madder and madder. And then you know what comes of that? Nothing good. So eventually I realized that. And then also too, I think sometimes with age, I don't know what it is about it just getting older. I've had moments with myself where I'm like, you are however many years old, you need to stop with this bullshit. You know it. There's nothing like getting sick of your own bullshit. People can get sick of your behaviors, but it doesn't mean that you'll change. A lot of times it takes being sick of what you're doing yourself. So I'm like, you need to stop doing this. It's to your detriment. You're the one suffering. If something is happening to you or something happened to you that a person did.

Amaka (00:22:57) - You know you're an adult. That person, I presume, is an adult. And there's nothing wrong with just, you know, asking them to asking to talk to them in a place where it's just the two of you and, you know, just kind of in a respectful manner, laying out your cards on the table, telling them how I feel. Or telling them how you feel and kind of being able to go from there and hopefully come to an understanding to where you can set a boundary and, you know, have it be respected and. perhaps a mutual agreement could become too. And maybe they need to set a boundary. Maybe you need to set a boundary. But hopefully at the end of the conversation, both of you guys come away feeling like there was some reconciliation. And then if that's really not the case, then maybe some other things in terms of the relationship with that person or that thing needs to be re-evaluated. But, you know, that's I would say that's a good first step.

Amaka (00:24:09) - So definitely divorcing that behavior of passive aggressiveness, of drawing the line in the sand in my mind and the people outside of my mind have no idea what's going on. And then something happens. They trip on that invisible force field and they have no idea. Meanwhile, all the alarms are ringing in my head. And I'm going through this emotional crap and they have no idea. Instead of just being able to come up to them and be like, hey, can I can we talk for a second? You know, and that's another thing that really stood out to me in the book. It was really like just this 1 or 2 sentences, you know, about the fear. Of vocalizing boundaries. We think of the worst case scenario, you know, because of what has happened to us in the past, because of the trauma that we've sustained, we're always trying to figure out what's the worst thing that could happen so that we know how to protect ourselves. And the worst case scenario that we conjure up in our minds is more often than not.

Amaka (00:25:34) - Way way way way way way way way, way worse. Not even close to what is really going to happen in real life. You might. Sure, you might ask the person to, you know, chat with them and make known your feelings, and then they might be like, screw your feelings, I'm going to do whatever the hell I want. And you know, it doesn't end well. Or you go up to them and you're like, oh, hey, can we talk or can we schedule a time to talk? And you guys have that conversation and they realize what they did and they are remorseful and they apologize and they say, oh, okay, I'm glad that you told me. I will definitely be more aware and cognizant of my behavior in the future. And you come away from that conversation. Like, oh, wow, it it ended way better than I could have ever thought it was. Also that possibility that that can happen to, you know, granted, having conversations like that may not go the way you hope, but sometimes they do.

Amaka (00:26:40) - A lot of times they do. And I feel like we don't give the folks who. These conversations are directed to enough credit because people many times are not trying to hurt you. They're not trying to hurt you. They're not. It's not personal. They don't know. And they appreciate being having that brought to their awareness. So I read that part in the book, you know, the sections that I've read so far. And I was like, yeah, you know, that's true. I've had a couple of experiences where I, you know, felt strongly that I needed to have some conversations, and I was really nervous about how the receiving party would react. And it turned out being, you know, ending way better than I could have ever anticipated. So I guess I say that to say, you know. Give, give folks credit, you know? Don't don't expect the worst. People can very oftentimes surprise you and really take what you're saying, take it in stride and really want to do better and be better.

Amaka (00:27:59) - that does depend a lot on where they are in terms of their journey emotionally and their level of self-awareness and their ability to receive what you are giving when it's coming from a pure and respectful place and that they know that you know, not that you're telling them that, but they know that you know, for themselves. So, you know, I took that away from the book, what I've read so far and some reminders to that I really appreciated, you know, the fact that you just have to say everything out loud. You just have to say everything out loud for a long time, like I said, I had my invisible force fields, my invisible boundary force fields in my mind, and then someone would trip on them, and then all my alarms would go off. But I wouldn't say anything outwardly. And then you get mad and they have no idea. And you just keep getting mad. And then what comes from that, you know? So maybe even before it gets to that point, remember that no one can read your mind, no matter how well they know you.

Amaka (00:29:18) - No one can read your mind. Not your husband, not your wife, not your spouse, and not your children. Not your best friend, not your boss, not your employee. Nobody. Nobody can read your mind. People can know you very well, but nobody can read your mind. And if there's certain, if there's something you feel strongly about that you haven't voiced out audibly to the hearing of another human being, you can't assume that they know. So that is my responsibility as someone who wants to institute that boundary, that is your responsibility as somebody who wants to institute that boundary. You can't be mad at the other party when they don't know at all. They have no inkling, no idea. So, you know, just kind of getting older. In general, I have seen how important communication is. Clear communication, explicit communication, you know, don't talk in code, don't talk in parables. Be clear in what you want, in your expectations and what you have to say. You know.

Amaka (00:30:25) - And not only be clear, but be consistent because you can say your boundary, you can be audible about it. You can be vocal about it. but it's new. It's new to whoever you're receiving party is, especially if it's something that is incongruent to how you guys have been behaving in the past. Perhaps, you know, you're kind of going through something or, you know, you're you're you're maturing or, you know, you're you're getting to a point where you're having maybe some life realizations and you realize there are some changes you need to make. And, and that comes with changing the relationships around you. So. You know, instituting a boundary, being vocal about it. Don't be surprised if there's pushback, because whether it's, you know, loose boundaries you had in the, you know, prior or no boundaries at all, and now you are shaking up the dynamic that you have with the other person or people. that's new, that's novel. referring back to the episode that I did on what happened to you? it's new, it's novel.

Amaka (00:31:45) - It's it's it's it might be perceived as threatening. and the receiving party might be defensive. They might push back because it's changing you guys relationship and because you're changing. It means that they may need to change if they want to maintain their connection to you. So with that, if you. One thing that I really appreciated in terms of kind of knowing, but it's helpful to read it and really solidify it for myself is if you're serious about. A personal boundary for yourself. You have to voice it out, like I've said, like 50 times already. And then you have to be consistent with that because folks will push back because they want to see if you're serious. They want to see if you're serious. They want to see if they can kind of nudge the relationship back into how it used to be, because it's comfortable and you don't need any work. You can kind of operate on autopilot, but if the dynamic is changing, then you kind of have to bring your full self and some changes might need to be made, and maybe that other person doesn't want to do that work.

Amaka (00:33:04) - So I would say, I think the book said you might get some pushback, but I personally feel like you should always expect pushback or don't be surprised. Let me say it like that. Don't be surprised if you get pushback. Perhaps not expected. I had to think about that for a second. Perhaps. Don't be surprised if it gets pushed back, you know, because you're switching up how things used to be and and that's not always readily received. So yeah, being vocal about your boundaries, being consistent with them if you institute them and. You. You know, have them said and they are not respected. You know, doing the work to keep making your desires known, you know? And if it's something where you have no wiggle room, then you and whoever else that is impacted may have to reevaluate, reevaluate the relationship. And you know, that just comes with life. That just comes with life needing to reevaluate, reevaluate relationships on a regular basis because we are constantly learning and growing and not everyone learns and grows at our pace.

Amaka (00:34:34) - And sometimes that means kind of not being as close. As we used to be, at least for that time. Sometimes. Never again. Sometimes you come back together if it's, you know, if if it works out that way. But. You know, we always have to be aware of that being a possibility. So I would say. Those are the big things that I've gotten so far from this book. And I, I'm looking at my notes right now and I haven't even turned the page. I have like two pages to like two pages worth of notes on the book, the amount of, pages that I've read so far, and I really haven't even scratched the surface. So clearly you can see that this episode, is not nearly enough to tackle the lessons in this book. but yeah, I'm really excited to continue this series, and I really hope that it's helpful to anyone who's listening. I really hope so. I know that for myself, getting to the point where, you know, I'm not perfect, there are things I still need to work on in terms of boundaries, but I am light years.

Amaka (00:36:05) - I'm in a much better place compared to me five, ten years ago. So, I hope that you guys will continue, on this journey with me. I'm sure that the book is going to continue to drop some major gems that I'm going to be so excited to share with you all. And if you guys just get 1 or 2 things that maybe help you, better navigate your interpersonal relationships and life in general, then I know that I've done my job. and yes, by this book, by this book, I've literally only read, I'm picking up the book right now to see where my bookmark is. Yeah. All this that I talked about is only the first two chapters, believe it or not. so I read like the introduction, and I read chapter one and I read chapter two. I haven't even started chapter three. That's where my bookmark is. And I've already recorded over a half hour north of content. So just to give you an idea, there's no way I can talk about everything that's going on in this book because in my mind, I want it to be a three part series.

Amaka (00:37:22) - so I'll see if I stick to that. Things may change, but right now, that's kind of what I want in terms of direction. So yeah, guys, I hope that this was helpful. I hope that you will continue on this series with me. And I want to thank you guys for listening to this episode. I'm going to end it here. I really appreciate you all staying on this journey with me, listening to the end of this episode. And if you want to reach out to me, share some thoughts, share some feelings, share some reflections. Please, please please do, please do. I want to hear from you guys. just send me an email at BTB w podcast at gmail.com. Again, that's BT bw podcast at gmail.com. if you liked this episode, if you like any of my past episodes, please share. Please recommend. yeah, like send it to anyone who you think may benefit, because I feel like I'm hoping that what I share on these episodes can resonate with as many people as possible.

Amaka (00:38:37) - And really, my ultimate goal for this podcast is just to make whoever listens, give them strategies and tools to make their everyday life just a little bit better. If I can do that, then I know I've done something. I've made an impact, even if it's a small one. so yeah, guys, thank you again for listening. I really appreciate it. I hope at whatever time you're listening to this episode that you are in a good place. Mentally, physically, emotionally. If that's not the case, I'm sending good, positive vibes your way and I will talk to you guys.

(00:39:22) - Thank you.